iPod mini

You're missing the point. You cannot jog or exercise with a hard-drive-based player. You must have a solid-state one for such things. This is where the Flash players come in. That's why the mini has an armband: the target here are people that _move_ rather than your average computer geek who understands the point of a hard drive and how to live around it.

Yes, it's _technically_ more expensive (tit-for-tat) but for what it's being targeted for it's a proper premium.

The way to optimize profits on something like this is to sell a bunch at a high price, wait a period of time, drop the price, and sell a bunch more. It's the same theory that airlines and stadiums use: a few first-class seats, and a bunch of folks in coach.

Also, I'm guessing (and, presumably, so is Apple) that a bunch of people will say, "I don't need 1,000 songs, and I like pink."

I agree that the iPod mini is not a great buy. People will still buy it for the same reason they buy Bose stereos. You're paying for the name recognition and design. I've got a Nomad Jukebox 3 20gb, which cost $150 less then the same size iPod, and love it, but generally people have no idea what that is. If you say "I've got an iPod", it's automatic, people know. While I'd love to have an iPod, I think the iPod Mini is a miss. Let's hope the prices drop some soon.

Yes, a bit of a disappointment, but if I were going to buy an iPod, I'd probably go for the mini. I just don't need every single song in my collection on me at all times. Size and form factor are the most important things to me in a pocket device.

I agree with you that dropping to a 1GB drive would do nothing for the price. If it did, Apple clearly would have done it. We're almost getting to the point where a 4GB drive is probably cheaper than a 1GB. I mean, imagine going to an HD manufacturer these days and asking for a 20 megabyte hard drive? It would cost you tons because the factories aren't optimized for that sort of product anymore. 4GB drives are probably the most cost-effective option at this point. I'd imagine a 1GB drive might be maybe 10 bucks less for Apple.

My bigger disappointment is the fact that Apple has not figured out how to put iPod functionality into a phone yet. The reason I haven't bought an iPod is that I just don't want two devices in my pocket. The Handspring Treo is so so so close to what I'm looking for. Great phone, good form factor, and an SD card slot which can hold 1GB of songs with the right chip in it. Why oh why is it still outside of Apple's strategy to produce a similar phone but with Apple's flair? Personally, I'd gladly pay $600 for one.

I couldn't agree more with you, Todd. I had been following the rumors online for some time, and I was ready to drop $100-150 for a 2GB iPod "mini."

But with this product, I might as well pay the $50 extra and get 11 more Gigs!

Size and color are not enough of a reason for this, in my opinion, ridiculous price point. Apple dropped the ball.

I don't know if I agree w/ it or not, but a ZD Net article asks "Would $100 iPod compete or cannibalize?" (http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1103_2-5134102.html) And speaking as a first generation iPod owner (yeah, $400 for 5GB) the prices will eventually come down...

Um, it's not a hard drive. It's solid state. It doesn't move. No moving parts. Stationary. Think RAM, not hard drive.

And the cost for a 4GB memory stick (tm) or a 4GB CompactFlash (r)? Oh, yeah, they don't exist. But you can buy (4) 1GB CompactFlash cards for a mere $2000.

iPod mini expensive? You bet. But if I told you that in one year you could earn an extra million dollars or so just by overcharging for a few months, would you do it? Sure, you would. And that's why I'm waiting unitl my birthday (in July) to ask my wife to buy me one (with my money...go figure).

.02
J

@Adam: What you failed to notice is that the iPod mini also sports a hard-drive! Even Apple can't pull of a $250-priced flash-player with 4GB in a world where a USB-stick with 256megs sets you back ~$70. So what you get is a thinner, smaller version of the _real_ iPod with one quarter of the entry level's capacity for $50 less - sheer disappointment... On the other hand I'm glad they didn't lower the 40GBs price 3 month after I bought it.

ahem, beg to differ

Technical Specifications straight from Apple

Capacity

4GB, 15GB, 20GB or 40GB hard disk drive(1)

Holds 1,000, 3,700, 5,000 or 10,000 songs in 128-Kbps AAC format(2)

Stores data via FireWire or USB 2.0(3) hard drive

Dave touched on (hi Dave) the thing that's rubbing my fur the wrong way: the colors. What? No manly dark brown? C'mon, toss me a brushed alluminum...something ..anything!

Personally, pastels make me angry. These iPODini's™ are in a color scheme designed to make me fly into a rage.

I was impressed with the changes to the iTunes store. Classical, Billboard charts (to keep tabs on just how bad popular music is) and their under advertised audio book section.

From what i read on CNET, for every $450 ipod you buy apple makes a profit of $175. Some of that cost must be the hdd (since its light , small, and decently fast)

i think they want to maintain the profit margin cause iTunes is not making any money (Steve himself admitted that from every 99 cents at least 75 cents goes to the record company) but it is helping sell a lot more ipod (he admitted that)

so they can make it cheaper i think... just dont want to
nik

The two screens may be similar but they're not identical -- the miniPod's is smaller -- so they can't save all that much there either.

What's all this fearmongering that you can't jog with a HD based player? Nonsense! Stop living in fear.

All I know is - for $249 they ought to at least throw in the dock.

Agree 1000%. This new iPod is a joke. It's a consumer trap. It's completely target-less. Anyone who is going to spend that much money will opt for the $299 model. So who are they targeting?

$99, one gig iPod was the way to go. It would hold more than 10 albums, which is fine for that target. Get rid of the firewire, go USB. I just wonder if Apple is even capable of ever producing anything that is cost effective.

Well, I'm pretty sure that Apple is better than us at figuring out the target market and the correct price point. Everyone bitched about the cost of the iPod, too. Also, it just doesn't follow that making an iPod smaller, with less capacity should lower the iPod's cost dramatically. Let's say that the hard drive cost is 50% of the cost of manufacturing and that a 4 gig drive costs 35% of the cost of a 40 gig (all figures are purely hypothetical, but seem reasonable). If the cost of manufacturing a 40 gig iPod were $300 that would lower the total cost of manufacturing for the mini by $97.50. But then you have to figure out the increased cost of miniaturization, blah, blah.

Also, it doesn't look like many of the components of the mini are "off the same assembly line." The screen's size sure doesn't look like it is. The controls aren't; case isn't. It's not paint, but anodized aluminum. This looks like a completely different product with the same interface and end use.

In short, I think all this blather about a less functional iPod for $100 was unreasonable and silly. For $100 you get a crappy flash-based player with no R&D costs, not an iPod. Would it be nice if it were $199? Sure, and if they could do it I bet they would have.

By the reasoning here, a Powerbook with a 5 gig hard drive should be able to be sold for @$400.

What a bummer! I was excited about a lower cost iPod, but $50 doesn't do it! Was the original iPod really too big for anyone?

Jason (the other one), I think you might have missed the point on this one. The person who will buy one of these - possibly me - doesn't necessarily want the 3G iPod. The iPod mini and the iPod are for two different markets, just as Steve mentioned in the keynote. While the price is slightly higher than what has been rumored in recent weeks, for the drop in size and style of it, I'm willing to bite. There is quite a size and weight difference (between 2 and 2.5 ounces). While this product might not be for you, let those of us to whom it is marketed enjoy it. It seems for fifty dollars more than what the current users of the Rio are paying, you get a ton more!

I've read this in other forums, and I'll repeat it here:

This is not for people who already own an iPod, nor is it for people who looking to buy an iPod.

This product is for consumers who are looking for an mp3 player that is small, inexpensive (less that 300 bucks), and has enough capacity to store their favorite music. The competition for the iPodMini are the Rio Nitrus players (1.5 gig for $219.00, and 4 gig for $249.00--same price as the mini), as well as all the flash-based crap that is out there. Apple knows that a lot of buyers are going to see the value of the 15gig iPod for 50 bucks more and go that direction. Hell, I bought the 10 gig model because I knew that I would never fill it up! I like to customize my music experience, and I could never listen to 40 gigs worth of music. Why should I bother to store that much? My guess is others feel the same way.These are the people that will buy the mini.

It's about value and features. The iPod is the most popular music player on the market. It works with the most poular Music download service on both platforms. It provides the best user experience. And it is damn cool. It will sell and it will sell well. And once the price goes down (and believe me, it will), it will sell even better. Remember, the original 5 gig model was "too expensive to ever make a difference" at 400 dollars. Look where we are now.

Sure , the competition may be a little less expensive, offer more battery life, or have built in FM tuning and voice recording features, but nothing beats an intuitive product that is a joy to use. I love my iPod, and wouldn't think about ever owning another music player.

Slashdot had posted a "possible" link to the HD being used for the mini-iPod and the size matches up. However, the specs of the hard drive basically preclude using it for any real type of physical activity (aka workout) while listening to music.

Honestly though, I agree that Apple missed the ball with this one. They missed the freaking park. There is no reason to pay that price when you can get four times the storage for $50 more. Hell, when you can get a Nomad Zen thats 30Gb for the EXACT SAME price...thats just stupid. I want an iPod, but not for that price.

Thats apple for you. They almost get it then they fuck it up

its the standard business policy

The iPod Mini will be $199 by this Christmas.

Apple always sells overpriced crap so what's the big surprise here?

I just dont know what to say. iPod was expensive, people bought it. I 'switched' to Apple last year (iBook) but cant seem to convince myself about the iPod or now the iPod mini. I think the target market will go for the 15Gb model because of the 'subtle' price point trick.
They will earn the money no doubt, I am just thinking I shouldnt love Apple this much anymore. Somewhere inside the mac fan has been killed. Sometimes its not just the money.. or so I thought.. now I know it was wrong.
I have an archos player, not an iPod, because it gave me everything.. recording, format support, bang for the buck. I had needs, the player fulfilled it. I think archos is way ahead of the others (damn , this is beginning to sound like a plugin for archos!!).

Net net, earlier, people who understood technology bought macs. Now, unfortunately and not-so-surprisingly, people who DONT understand technology will buy macs (mac products).

They are going places where no mac has gone before!!

Thank goodness it's not that cheap! Who wants all those Burberry wearing 'masses' to be walking round with white headphones? Not me!

Apple made the right choice here, lets keep it a lusted after luxury item for the elite! The riff raff can have their flash based boxes and eat cake!

Quick. Explain to your mother in less than 3 minutes why she should pay $50 more for a bulkier iPod that doesn't come in colors. Her smiling eyes will glaze over as soon as you say the word 'hard drive' or 'capacity'.

Apple has already sold iPods to those with the means to buy luxury and the desire to have their entire massive music library on the go. Now Apple wants to sell iPods to the rest of us that want smaller, flashier gadgets and need just a few tunes for the road.

Keep in mind, this is in conjunction with a gigantic marketing blitz with Pepsi to give away 100 million song. They'll be reaching a lot of people buying sodas for $1 (or just groaning through the Superbowl commercial) and I'm sure a lot of those people won't be toting either existing iPod. There are a lot of people who still can't afford the best mp3 player/interface on the planet; the release of the iPod mini does nothing to change this.

Gee, how many ways did Apple miss the boat on this one! This seems like the same problem they had with the Cube - it was too close in price to the real thing. It makes no sense to buy a iPod mini when you can buy a regular one for just $50 more. And the iPod mini is not that much smaller (they are too long). A better form factor would have been like the Nike/Philips psa mp3 players for at least two reasons: 1) They're about half the size of an iPod mini, and 2) It doesn't look ridiculously exposed and unprotected in its armband.

I'll continue to wait. Maybe they'll get it right the next time around.

Definitely leaves me still sitting on the fence waiting for my ipod solution. Certainly a number of dissapointed folks today across the board. From apps to the ipod, Apple took more away and IMHO, it fizzled for the 20th anniversary.

ugh - I was really hopeful -
aah well thats our Apple. Pretty and nice and kicks ass but $$$. I want one. Wont buy one. The only Ipod Ive bought is for gf - very sweet - At least if you get an Ipod with a larger drive you can use it for transporting files around. This is a pure vanity item.
(whom i kidding- the ipod is also ). We'll be seing some sexy girls sporting these on the streets of NY.

Where are people getting the idea this is solid-state?

A few people here have said so. Weird.

others have said the same, but:

1) ipod mini is targeted to people who didn't want an ipod (not those that couldn't afford it), sorry for those of you waiting for a cheaper ipod, this wasn't for you. the colors alone should prove that. this product is aimed squarely at the "technology as fashion accessory" crowd. think sony's dsc u20/u30 camera and some of the new nokia phones.

2) the price point is inline with competitors in this market, $199 for a 256MB solid state player, $250-$600 for a 4GB hard drive based player (yeah $600 check out the creativelabe muvo2).

3) y'all said the same thing when the ipod came out 2 years ago... it's too expensive, no one will pay for that. i don't think you'll be right this time either.

4) 6 months from now you'll be able to buy this model for $200 and the 6/8GB for $250 (they didn't bump the base model ipod to 15GB for nothing.)

1) It thought the iPod _was_ made for the active person—not the comp potato—or why would someone not just use their computer? I run everyday and mountain bike hard with my iPod, it rarely ever skips—even dropped it twice. This thing is tough.

2) The mini iPod dilutes the idea of what an iPod is. By expanding their product line they are going to make it that much easier for others to compete.

3) It's bad enough to bring 'color' choice back into their product line (so y2k)—what I can't fathom, is why they lifted the color palette from my grandma's makeup compact.

If they introduce powerbooks in those colors… I'll… I'll… Oh god, they ARE aren't they?!

On the colours:

Evaluate the colours individually - this is one case where the group doesn't work together. Metallics will always look pastel in the traditional Apple infinitly white setting. I'll be interested to see how they appear in other environments.

Stop with all the whinging about the iPodmini - the real catastrophe today is the sacriligious adding of the iPod to the chesty hammer throwing gals outfit - WTF!

Apple: "we used to make computers"

On the colors:

I think the iPod mini colors are terribly hip. You say "grandma’s makeup compact"? More like straight from the latest round of Aesthetic Apparatus posters. Browse the hip magazines at your local bookstore. You'll see that AA aren't the only one's painting with a combination of saturated and pastel colors. Apple has learned to inject youth style into their iPod advertising and now it has crept into their product styling as well.

I agree it's too expensive.

I believe they are using the new Cornice storage element. If they are they'd have to be craming two in one because at the moment the drives are 2gigs.

I run with my first generation ipod and it never skips. I've even dropped the thing a couple times. It rides around with me in my car with bad shocks. Never had a problem. Keeps on ticken :) Reason is iPod buffers songs which cuts down on the hard drive having to constantly spin. When it's not accessing the HD all the elements are locked down preventing damage.

Can't wait to get my hands on GarageBand :)

I think the iPod mini will be a hit.
It's a design statement and there will probably be a ton of teens wanting them.
Sure, it should be cheaper, but just like people like the latest cell phones, maybe people won't mind spending more, when it's this cool.

Hi there, long time reader first time writer. I had commented on a message board of how I had spent the entire morning with credit card in hand ready to buy (I had imagined at most $149) an iPod mini for my girlfriend and possibly for myself and was disappoint to find it was $100 more than I had projected. Based on the rumours I was imagining it would've been 2GB which would have been MORE than enough for my other as she only has but a couple of CDs and while not as much as I would've hoped for myself enough to keep me busy on my travels.

Now at the end of the day I haven't really made up my mind about whether or not to buy it but I think that Apple know's it's target market. Other than [rich] nerds, the people sporting the iPod where trend whores (excuse my terminology). Now who's going to buy metallic pink iPod? The same trend whores that wanted their iPod to match their Prada Bag, and hell they'll probably buy two to match their other outfit and now rather than just seeing white earphones they'll flash the iPod mini with pride because it's Them. [side note: while this would have been horribly cheesy, I could've seen a market for "face plates" to go with the minis.]

Millions of these will sell, not just cause they're smaller and "fashionable" and brand Apple. But compared to the direct competition at the same price point you're getting a real iPod with class, style and usabilty rather than some nonsense Muvo or whatever the hell it's called.

As it was said earlier, those waiting for a sub $200 will probably have to wait until Christmas and by then I'm not sure how cool the iPod will be cause then the market will be oversaturated with them and they won't be as 'leet. Maybe Apple plans on introducing a "Powerbook" iPod for those with the extra bucks :)

Again, I'm not sure where I stand on buying it, but I think Apple knows where they're going with it. And with that said I look forward to Garageband and Office 2004 (that notebook app seems fab for classes).

So on the note of solid-state or not ... the confusion was Steve saying "Flash" so much while introducing it. A look at the tech specs page does, indeed, show that it's not solid-state. However, the inclusion of an armband, adding it to the joggin' woman in 1984, and so on, goes to they expect this to survive movement more than the larger models so the point of my post is the same: this will work for people that want to listen to music and move.

As for the colors, you're looking at a group studio shot. Wait until you see them in person. It's really not so bad at all. I rather like the blue one. :)

I'll admit I'm not a fan of most of the colors. But more important than the palette is the anodized aluminium case that will resist scratches.

As every iPod owner knows, this is a huge improvement over the scratches-wth-lint stainless steel. I was so frustrated with scratches (and trying to protect against them) that I gave the steel a brushed metal look with care and a slightly abrasive plumber's pad.

I imagine that Apple will at some point go to this enclosure for the rest of the line.

People will still buy it for the same reason they buy Bose stereos. You’re paying for the name recognition and design.

Most people buy bose because it sounds so superior to other products. Believe me, you can hear the difference.

There isn't enough difference between the ipod and other mp3 players to survive on 'name recognition and design'.

Bad comparsion.

sorry, nobody buys bose for sound quality. they buy bose for lifestyle reasons...it's unique design and simple user-friendliness. the supposed bose sound quality is a marketing gimmick. for the same price, you can get much higher quality audio equipment. every stereophile would agree.

Thomas: Sorry, people who buy Bose for "sound quality" are buying into crappy marketing. Bose gets by with some nasty acoustic tricks that ruin the true sound quality. For $1000 I could get a tiny little Bose system that will barely pass a computer THX test set. For $1000 I could get an Infinity system that WILL pass the THX test suite, big difference in sound quality...REALISTIC sound quality. Bose is marketing, as is the new mini-iPod. Clever marketing, expensive marketing, but it'll find its niche.

I still think they missed it though. The market saturation they would have gotten with a 1-2Gb player at a cheap price point would have been insane. Not only that but most teenagers (the likely crowd to buy) would quickly outgrow the size limitations and upgrade to a 15-20Gb player. Build the brand through generations, not just one shot.

speaking as a teenager (suburban, upper middle class) who was excited about the ipod minis when i first heard about them, i can tell you that i won't be buying one anytime soon. sure, colors are great, but i would frankly get tired of green or blue after a few months. but more importantly, the price: no freaking way am i going to blow my christmas money on one of these. $249? are you kidding? i would love an ipod despite being happy with my tiny little MuVo, but this is sort of ridiculous. drop the price to $200, and i'd consider buying one. drop it to $150, and i'm one my way to the nearest apple store. or instead, why not offer a 2GB model for one of these prices? big enough to hold most of my MP3s, if not all my CDs. or perhaps offer the 4GB at the same price, but throw in a dock and a few other tasty extras. do something, because there's no way i'm buying this thing as things currently stand.

I went to MacWorld today and saw the minis. Pretty impressive. These things are tiny and I thought the ipod was really small. And for the price, show me another firewire/usb 2 hard drive with the ability to play mp3s that small for under 200 bucks. I don't think you can but I be glad to be told otherwise ;P .

Side note , if it is compatible with the Ipod Belkin card reader for digital cameras, I think this will be a very cool tool for digital photographers out in the field.

I think what will happen is that the early adopters will rush out and get a mini. While some folks who have been waiting will say that is rip off but will spend the extra 50 bucks for the 15 gig full size ipod. Apple will probably lower the price of the minis to 199 in three months just in time for summer while offering a 2 gig for 150 and then they will be flying out the stores.

the iPod mini will sell in boatloads. Its about getting a player on the market thats the same price as the Rio whatever, but is WAY cooler, and way better.
It also acts as a backup drive etc.etc.

The Pepsi thing will help to sell loads of these - cant afford $250? Nonsense. Almost everyone can afford $250, and when this thing hits the shelves, plus the Pepsi promotion, they will buy.

A good pair of runners can cost 200
A good mountain bike is usually 500 - 700 min.
A good pair of sunglasses 250
A good phone 300 - 600
A good digital camera 600 min

Any of you folks own any of this stuff? You'll buy the mini.

I have a 10 gig iPod, but I want one of these because its small and beautiful.

You dont 'get it'? Well dont buy it then.

Oh yeah - GarageBand!
Cant wait.

Oh, and Margaret? Stop being so stubborn and spend that Christmas cash - you'll love the iPod!
$200 was OK, but the extra $49 is stopping you?
Dont let $49 ruin your day.......

As the proud owner of an original 5MB iPod, I can't wait to get my hands on one of these cool babies...

Yes, they blew it for me too. I was waiting 3 months for this, to finally get rid of Zip drive and use iPod for transfering files (with added benefit of music).

Cost per MB for iPod is great, but the initial price tag is just too high (400€ for smallest iPod in Serbia). All Apple did was to make this ratio worse. Sad.

Well, now I can calmly go and buy iRiver, like everybody told me to do in the first place.

I'm right in the middle: I think the iPod mini's will be a solid seller for Apple (if not a hit), but it's my opinion that given the colossal Pepsi promo-and the rumored McDonalds promo-Apple would have made a huge investment in their future had they introduced a 1-2gb $150-175 iPod.

I've been an Apple customer since 1986; I was 20. Price has been the number one objection I hear from people I talk to about buying a Mac. Although Apple has made huge improvments in the last two years in this area (read: $1099 iBook, and other examples), Apple didn't make any progress in shattering this crippling perception.

It's the elephant in the room, IMO. I don't find Steve Jobs' rationale that Apple is more than happy to be the BMW of computer manufacturers; just look at the message projected in their legendary 1984 commercial. Apple fictionally liberates the masses.

In summary, I realize that few if any of us here KNOW what Appe's COGS is on any of their products, let alone the iPod mini, but sometimes less is in fact more. A $150 iPod with a 1gb drive might drive new users to the platform which would inevitably convert into higher priced iPod sales in the future, not to mention new Mac sales, new iSight sales, new Apple software sales, .Mac sales, etc. Sometimes less is more.

The colour choices - anyone notice that, right up until launch, there were "colour theme selector" buttons in the top right hand corner of the iPod page at Apple.com? Well, looks like they counted how many times people clicked which colours. And now that space is occupied with the iPod Mini link graphic. "Ah-hah!" as Trudeau might have said...

So no one sees that the HP announcement is the lower priced iPod??

No wonder Apple couldn't announce a device at a cheaper price point.

A good pair of runners can cost 200; A good mountain bike is usually 500 - 700 min.; A good pair of sunglasses 250; A good phone 300 - 600; A good digital camera 600 min

Who _are_ these people who drop $250 on a pair of sunglasses or $200 on a pair of running shoes? Are there THAT many single people out there with terrific jobs? Or two-income families spending no time with their children? Do you _really_ think the majority of people think nothing of spending $600 on a bicycle? Or $500 on a cell phone?

Is it an "Apple" thing? Because I don't know anyone like you describe, and you can bet I won't be buying a $249 MP3 player, no matter how "innovative," "sleek" and "cool" it may be. I guess perhaps music just isn't _that_ important to me.

It's just not at the right price point. The device looks sexy enough, the size difference is significant enough, but it's harder to make the arguement that it's so much better than ANOTHER Apple product that it's worth it's price.

Who _are_ these people who drop $250 on a pair of sunglasses or $200 on a pair of running shoes? Are there THAT many single people out there with terrific jobs? Or two-income families spending no time with their children? Do you _really_ think the majority of people think nothing of spending $600 on a bicycle? Or $500 on a cell phone?

Cheapskate, By the end of your rant, you've noted that you "don't care about music enough" to spend $249 on the iPod Mini. That's fine, well and good. Obviously, you have self-selected yourself out of the target market for this device, as we say in marketing-speak.

But your comments seem to imply that if anyone else spends money on a device (that you yourself cannot afford) then they must be rich, single, or neglectful of their children!

It's one thing not to have money to buy something, it's another thing to say that you don't find good value-for-money in said something, it's yet another thing to belittle other people who find value in something that you do not.

The market has niches for any amount of money you care to spend on a particular product, but you get what you pay for. $5 sunglasses from Walgreens are not the same as $250 Persols from France, and again you can spend $1000s on custom-made prescription models. You can get $1 wine at warehouse club stores, and some of it might even be pretty good, but you'd be hard-pressed to compare it to Veuve Cliquot 1995 reserve.

Speaking purely in Canadian dollars, you can get a functional bicycle for $200 (say, $165 US) from Canadian Tire, and it'll be fine, but don't expect to get the same features as those on a $600 bike. At $200 you'll have a heavy, steel-framed bike with low-end gears and shifters and a fixed seatpost. It'll be fine for occasional or 'fun' use, but if you ride every day, you'd appreciate the difference in the pricier model with a gel seat, suspension seatpost, and aluminum frame with Shimano gears. And you can go all the way up into the $1000s again for customized road bikes with carbon fiber everything, etc.

Again, if you need a particular product, you have to make choices in what you absolutely need, what you can 'live with' and what you can afford. But calling other people names is sour grapes in extremis.

Some mini thoughts:

—Comparing the iPod mini to other gadgets in its same market one will find it is priced right on target.

—Smaller, lighter and more durable is always MORE expensive to fabricate.

—If innovations such as the aluminum case and click wheel prove successful, expect to see them on interim revs of the existing bigger 'pods.

—In the very near future, the mini form factor is likely to continue as the only one for an audio-only iPod once the product line is expanded to include video- and/or input-capable products.

Just in case this wasn't mentioned before the "Smaller Rightfully Costs More" argument isn't going to hold up forever because people don't want to have a 17" monitor in there pocket people want a 100$ ipod in there pocket.

making smaller stuff and larger harddrives costs more money - stop doing it!

solution: make a ipod that costs a 100$ and has less (not more) of everything

All the people who are saying that iPod Mini is supposed to compete with other flash-based players by matching their price-point: who is buying those other flash-based players that are less capable than the iPod Mini and cost the same? I know that those are always the ones that I see in plentiful stock at my local Fry's, while the larger hard-drive-based players are few and far between.

I suspect that the Mini will sell tolerably well, that it will do better than the other manufacturers' players that it is competing against, and also that that won't do much much for large sales numbers - quite the opposite in fact.

And for those bringing out the Veuve Clicquot / Persols / Lamborghini metaphors, please note that the 100Yen stores in Japan (more or less 'dollar stores') were unknown before their recession really bit deep. Before then, purchasing decisions were all about reputation and prestige.

We're not clear of our recession yet, and a lot of people are looking for good value and not for prestige brands (though if they can combine them together, all the better!) A 'value' decision here rather than a 'prestige' one could have been a huge, roaring sales success ... but I guess we'll see what we shall see with the other choice.

Ah, well. I know I would probably have snapped up a $100-$150 2GB version of the Mini, but the $249 4GB version is right out. I'll stick with my clunky, cheesy, hackable 20GB Archos for $150 after rebate. (The 3rd-party Rockbox firmware helps a LOT.)

Im a teen and am pretty excited about the mini. The 25o aint bad ( leftover b day & christmas money). Im not crazy about the colors but silver will be cool. Having an ipod is an honor and i would be disapointed if every body could go out and get one. You dont take ur girlfriend to a fancy restaurant because you love fancy food, you do it for the quality name and the cool appearance ( makes ya look rich ;p), just like the ipod mini.

some people also dont need a 15 g hard drive. Apple would be thrilled if people kept saying " I can get 3 times more storage for 50 more bucks" then fork over 50 bucks more than they needed to. i mean come on, do you really like every song in your music collection? 1000 songs is plenty of my fave songs to keep me going. Any one who needs more than that to carry around really needs to get a life and stop buying so many cds! click wheel is a cool addition too. in conclusion buy a mini or stop freakin dissin it!!

a 1 gigabyte hard drive would be a peice of crap with an apple logo on it. the higher priced mini was a smart move.

If I had to buy an Mp3 Player, I would buy this one: [http://www.digitalnetworksna.com/shop/_templates/item_main_Rio.asp?model=219&cat=35].
It's "only" 1.5 GB, but I don't need all my collection every time on me.
I actually have a Rio500 and I'm very happy with it. The smartcard memory is a bit expensive, but the sound is superb. I have it already for years...

Anyways. Here's my perspective on the iPod mini. I have always thought that more gigs the better. I couldn't be more wrong. As soon as I filled up my 20gigs on my 1G iPod, I had a tough time deciding what I wanted to listen to since I had so much music to choose from. With just 4gigs, you have less options, you are forced to keep switching playlists, which in my opinion makes you get into the music you really love even more. For people who know exactly what they want to hear, buy the 40gig. Good luck utilizing it. But if you're like me (indecisive at best) the 4gig mini, despite the cost is plenty. If I want to hear something else after 100 albums, I'll spend the 5 minutes and throw in some new material. Less is more. Respect.

Ok the ipod is wayyyyy to expensive! Does anyone have any idea were to get it any cheaper! Im just not feeling like paying 300 dollars for music I already have for free that I downloaded! There really neat though, But hello thats a little outragoeus! Please fill me in on anywhere i can get this thing cheaper? Used? Ebay maybe? I dunno

Ummmmm... It is THE hottest selling consumer electronics product in a looooooong time!!! Over 100,000 sold in LESS than 2 weeks and NO ONE is able to keep them in stock. EVERYBODY is sold out. And what about that price tag??? Look on eBay and hundreds are selling, and sold for, over $300. It may seem high priced at first, but why lower the price if you can't make them fast enough? I agree, by Christmas the 4GB will be under $200 and a new 6-8GB will replace the $249 price one. By then, an 80GB ipod will be out too. Plus more is in the works. Apple will dominate the download music business.

Take a look at this article at CNET. I think it does a good job of laying out the reasons to choose a mini or a regular ipod.

Is the iPod right for you?
http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6450_7-5125354-1.html?tag=cnetfd.sd

Here's a great way to get the iPod mini and get great content. At audible.com, you can download the best audiobooks, radio programs, comedy shows, even the New York Times, and if you join for a year, we give you $100 off the iPod of your choice.

As a high school student, for me and many of my friends, the iPod mini is a great blessing. For us, $50 is a lot of money, and saving up $250 compared to $300 is a big difference. Plus, the iPod mini is colored, and who can say that is a bad thing. True, its not 15 GB of space, but most people I know have a music library that would fit fine on an iPod mini. Besides, I have a 20GB iMac, so I don't think I'll be storing 15GB of tunes on it any time soon.

haha all you thinking this ipod mini would be a dissappointment couldn't be more wrong. they are sold out EVERYWHERE, they go on ebay for 400 bucks, everyone who has one always has a crowd of people around them admiring... this is the most talked about, most successful thing ever made for the digital music market. I personally well take delivery on mine next week. for the past month I have been borrowing my friend's (after hours of begging) and I hate giving it back to him. it just fits so well you don't even know it's in your pocket. 1000 songs is more than you will ever use (who the hell listenss to all 10,000 songs anyways? ) and besides, a quick trip to the computer and you have 1000 fresh new songs at your disposal. 909 percent, thats how much ipod sales have grown in one year. case closed.

i'm a 27 year old man and i CAN'T WAIT to get my hands on a mini (i just can't find one).

the mini is a mid-sized storage unit (for when 15+ gigs is unnecessary and anything MB is too small) in a very small package that is very user friendly.

the color's mean nothing to me.

i see no problem

$249 for a 4GB player is cheap. If you want to buy a harddrive of this size (it's a 4GB CF harddrive) you will have to spend about $400. That's why so many people buy a MP3 player and remove the harddrive for use in their digital camera. I live in Europe. The IPod is much more expensive over here. It's arround $399. You should all be happy in the USA if you compare the prices with europe.