Thoughts on PowerMac G5, OS X 10.3

The attention to detail and value was what really pleased me about yesterday's announcements. Firewire, USB, and a headphone jack on the front of the G5, finally. Expose will be really convenient for most of us, but not as big a deal for Windows users I suspect, who are accustomed to having each app take over their whole monitor to begin with. I don't know how those people work.

10.3 will get blasted as a paid and/or exceedingly expensive upgrade, but it provides a lot of value. If it truly can replace Suitcase @ a buggy $100 a unit and FaxSTF at a virtually unusable $100 a pop the price of the OS for me begins to drop dramatically.

I was at the Apple store SoHo yesterday to watch the keynote. It was so damned crowded up on the second floor that people could only go up if others were coming down.

When Jobs described Expose, people in the crowd were kind of mumbling different things, but when he showed it for the first time--the place went nuts. It's gotta be one of the most visually pleasing yet still absolutely usable things I have ever seen. (Fast user switching looked pretty neat too).

I am looking forward to Panther, and I hope it brings lots and lots of speed improvements as well.

I'm sure 10.3 will be an paid upgrade, and I'm worried that too many Mac users won't dish out the cash for it. In the past year, a lot of the casual Mac users just switched to 10.2 from OS 9. Why should they pay Apple another $100+ to upgrade only a year later? 10.3 has excellent user-centered features and software built into it that people are going to want to use much more than anything that was in 10.2. It would be to Apple's advantage to keep the price low, or at least under $100. This will greatly encourage upgrades and get the word spreading quickly about the amazing OS that 10.3 is sure to be.

P.S. Expose is definitely cool, but in the meantime I'll settle for using LiteSwitch X, which kicks the docks application switching butt.

I cannot remember the last time a keynote by Jobs met with that many oohs and ahs as well as purely spontaneous gasps of astonishment and delight. OK ... they did give out free iSights, but still.

I just recently bought a 17" PowerBook G4 and am using OS X for the first time. I shouldn't have waited so long to upgrade.

My question to you all is did Jobs shoot himself in the foot by garunteeing a 3 GHz within 12 months? I can remember buying a beige G3 6 months before the first blue G3 came out and feeling cheated ... why would anyone rush to place a large order (i.e. a studio or production company buying multiple machines) when I new a 3 GHz was on the horizon ... esspecially in this economy?

My only thought is that Apple is pricing the G5s so low in preparation of the 3 GHz machines coming in at the high end.

Anyway ... I love the buzz and excitement in the community. I cannot EVER remeber seeing a group of Microsoft fanantics or Dell supporters as enthusiastic as the Apple Evangelists, advocates and users are right now.

"Thus today (23/24 June 2003), when I went to the Apple website to check out the new PowerMac G5, I was very disappointed to discover that Apple was attempting to deliberately MISLEAD me about the speed of the PowerMac G5."

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Joshua --

current users of Jaguar will be able to upgrade for $29 to Panther -- I think it will be done online only. The retail price is $129...but the upgrade price is much cheaper.

As for the misleading speed... they've done it less so this time. If you remember the last speed demo the pitted a Dual 1.4 against a Single CPU P4, and barely beat it. This time they used an independent firm (i know, I know, compiler brouhaha) against a Dual P4 Zeon.

The good news is the Mac just jumped right back into head to head speed competition, something they haven't been able to do for about 3 years. As with all advertising you have to weed through the marketing spin and make your own decision - speed tests are marketing spin.

What I want to know is does the iSight work with iMovie, and can I use my lame USB webcam with iChat AV. I really don't care if I can do a 100 step photoshop action 5 seconds faster or slower than a PC. I just want to use a mac that feels fast as hell, and the new G5's accomplish that.

Now, nobody really knows that for sure. And we won’t know the truth behind the hype until some independent third parties get their mits on that towering hunk of steel mesh and run it around the track a few laps.

I used to work for P&G and I have to assume Apple also has as a stringent claim protocol that requires proof for this controversial claim. Apple did have an independent testing third party (Veritest) run it through standard tests and Jobs showed the results at the keynote. As a dual processor, it beat the fastest Xeon dual processor in both integer and floating point calculations. Then they did the usual Photoshop, 3D rendering and Mathematica side by side racing.

I think it is too funny that Expose is thought of as "impressive". It is nice but nothing new to Windows users who use the free powertoys from MS. The new finder? Open and Save box? New File Management? Nice stuff but again not new to Windows users. Apple is a very super cool company and its gadgets rock but Expose is far from "stop the press". Next you gonna tell me about how cool it is to use "Fast User Switching" or file and folder encyption or faxing. WOW! I am impressed. Come on guys get with the program.

And lastly, I thought the G4 was so much faster than a Pentium already? (sarcasm) Amazing that NOW there will be a "PowerMac that can actually compete... with the beige wintel box world". This time is for real. Right?

current users of Jaguar will be able to upgrade for $29 to Panther

I could be wrong, but if you are referring to the keynote, the $29 was just to add IChat AV to Jaguar, not to upgrade to Panther.

I always joke with my work peers that, among the Mac fanatics, a keynote like that of Steve Jobs yesterday surely beats that of Jesus's second coming - if you are to believe them.

Expose looks like something I could put to good use, me suffering from a strange mix of multitasking paranoia combined with a good dose of ADD.

I really hope the Panther upgrade is indeed $30 -as rumor has it- and not another $120-plus concotion as 10.2 was. Apple should know better by this time that they can't ask whatever they want from their user base - loyalty should not be confused with a sheep-like dumb following.

there is no $29 upgrade price. $129 for all users, though they usually allow you to purchase an upgrade CD for the price of shipping/handling if you purchase a new computer within 6 weeks of shipping the new OS.

re: upgrade price

sorry.. my ears were filled with wax or something..

I heard the $29 upgrade and "thought" it applied to Panther... i re-read the coverage online and it applies to iChatAV

sorry again.

- John

In regards to the upgrade price, you are essentially buying a new OS. (Windows users pay full pop for each of their upgrades) Jaguar does have some age. Besides, like others have said, Font Management, Fax, and the other features that will eliminate buying the utilities that "make up" for the missing stuff is worth the $129 to me. I just hope it runs as fast or faster than Jaguar on my old 1GHZ Powerbook :-)

The old Finder has got to go!

As a Windows user I just don't understand what's so great about Exposé. At the bottom of my screen there's a grey bar where I'm able to see all open programs/windows at once. This is simpler and quicker than what Exposé does. Next to the bar there's an icon that minimizes all windows and brings up the desktop. You mean there hasn't been anything like this on the Mac until now?

The first personal computer with a 64 bit processor – didn't Digital (since then bought by Compaq) offer 64 bit Alpha workstations years ago?

In OS X, you can option-command click on any icon in the dock to "hide others" (or, you can assign this modifier key combination to your multi-button mouse; I have the scroll wheel button on my 5 button mouse set to do this). When applied to the Finder, this clears your screen of all other apps and windows to reveal your desktop. Unlike the "reveal desktop" button in Windows, however, you can click in this way on any icon in your dock to "hide others." It's really quite nice.

The problem with the task bar is that once you open several windows and applications, the text in those little boxes gets truncated (e.g. My Do...), making it very difficult to distinguish amongst them. I'll agree, that the task bar works extremely well if you only have a few windows open. But, the system breaks down quite quickly, IMO.

You also have to consider the differing working habits of Mac versus Windows users (as encouraged by the operating system logic). Because the Mac OS is application (not windows) centric, it's quite common for Mac people to have many windows from various apps visible simultaneously (as opposed to a single window occupying your entire desktop). For a Mac user, this is natural and productive.

For example, I typically have several Photoshop and Illustrator files open, and when doing web work, Dreamweaver, BBEdit and Terminal windows. Now, in Windows, the task bar is quickly overwhelmed by the number of things I want to have open simultaneously.

With the addition of Exposé, window and application management on the Mac will become very easy, especially for those of us who have more than 3-5 files open at once. At a glance, you will be able to visually filter open windows in general, or you can choose just windows for the active application, or no windows at all (revealing the desktop). It seems very powerful, yet simple, to me. I wouldn't be surprised to see Windows try and copy the logic of this feature, which would have th effect of putting the task bar on steroids, so to speak.

I hate the Windows task bar. I sit and watch (rolling my eyes) as my boss navigates through a dozen or more open windows. Alt-tab, Alt-tab, Alt-tab, Alt-tab, etc. until he finds the right one.

His taskbar is so loaded he can't tell anything apart except for the app icons because each tab has been squeezed to death. I think I can even hear some of them crying for help. It becomes useless at some point (and thus extremely unproductive). Plus, with the taskbar you can't tell what each window contains. Exposé allows you to see a thumbnail, plus get a description on mouseover.

Exposé is a (key)stroke of genius.

Two Panther Switch User Questions:

* how easy to set up a couple of "virtual" users, so that switching to one gets you full-screen Linux (via VPC), and switching to another gets you full-screen Windows (XP, 2000, etc., also via VPC)?

* is it possible to cut and paste between users? (some sort of "global clipboard"?)

A very impressive Keynote indeed.

I was a Mac user for a long time - until I became familiar with Windows. For a while, when I would occasionally work on a Mac, I missed a lot of features that had become second-nature for me on Windows.

I'm finally glad OSX provides a way to cycle thru apps. Being able to Alt+Tab your way through apps is a must have. Not just cycle through in a fixed sequence (like

oops >
I'm finally glad OSX provides a way to cycle thru apps. Being able to Alt+Tab your way through apps is a must have. Not just cycle through in a fixed sequence (like before OSX) - but have the OS remember the order in which you used those apps is very handy.

Also having a way to quickly hide windows to show your desktop should be in place - this has finally been addressed in Expose, but it seems to have been rather late. A quick Window+D keystroke will accomplish this in Windows, while a Window+E will launch a Windows Explorer pane. These actions require a little more effort on a Mac.

Mnemonic keys are something I'd like to see developed for Mac applications. Being able to access every menu option via the keyboard saves a ton of time over trying to use the mouse to navigate cascaded menu options, or options that do not have a shortcut key combination. For example, in Photoshop, I have become very accustomed to switching image size and mode. It has become a quick Alt+I+I to change image size, while switching to RGB mode is as simple as an Alt+I+M+R. On a Mac those keystroke options aren't present, forcing the user to use the mouse. Once you know the mnemonics for your favorite apps, it’s hard to go back to the mouse.

I know, I know, it's a tool - whatever floats your boat, it's what you work best with, blah, blah, blah. I am by no means a Windows lover, or a Mac hater for that matter. I would just like to see the Mac get some of the features I've grown attached to - maybe then I could switch...

Matt:

While you have to pay for it ($15?), LiteSwitch X does exactly what you are wanting plus more. I love it; its the perfect app switcher.

And for the "Show Desktop", you can get this for free from:
http://www.everydaysoftware.net/showdesktop/

Expose will probably be one of my favorite features of 10.3.

As long as my employer foots the bill for the new OS -- great!

But I can't see spending the money for this for my Mac at home... not all of us have the cash! Since I've begun playing around with Linux, I've begun to see the many, many ways that OSX borrows heavily (and contributes!) to Open Source...so I'm going to keep-on-keepin'-on with the Penguin at home. :-)

Like the rest of you I watched the Keynote yesterday in AWW. I am really looking forward to getting a new G5 and cant wait to get my hands on Panther.

Today I went down to the Apple Store (Lenox Square) and picked up an iSight. Have to say it works really well. Video chatted with a buddy in the UK , it was very clear and the audio was just like a phone call! Only problem is when i connect iSight to my iBook 500 MHz (one year old) it doesn't work. I looked on the iSight box and saw that the min. requirements was an iBook 600 MHz G3. I was going to buy another iSight to take with me everywhere, but it looks like i have to buy a new Notebook first (only good thing about this is I have been looking for a reason to get a new Powerbook -- this sounds like a good enough reason to me).

Expose will be really convenient for most of us, but not as big a deal for Windows users I suspect, who are accustomed to having each app take over their whole monitor to begin with. I don’t know how those people work.

I should start off by pointing that I am a former Mac user who has always loved the polish and attention to detail Apple entreats its products. I am however now primarily a Windows user for reasons which don't really have any relevence here.

Whilst I frequently look on enviously at Mac OS X and each new generation of hardware, there are occasions when I have to do a double take on some new announcement that has the Mac-using community picking their chins up off the floor. Expose appears to be one such "groundbreaker".

Now whilst the likes Corey must look at Windows users with perlexion, with their funny fullscreen applications (as I remember doing when I was still using Macs), it is a logical fallacy that this is a bad idea. Larger window equals larger workspace, just as larger display equals larger workspace. The rare occasions where side-by-side windows are needed for some task can still be catered for.

As a visual metaphor, Exposé appears to do a very simple thing in a very nice fashion. It's pretty, it's instantly obvious where everything is - but it doesn't give me any additional functionality compared to the Alt-Tab key combination which I've been happily using in Windows for years (or indeed several shareware program switcher tools I used under Mac OS 8 which gave similar functionality).

Still, it will almost certainly be more newbie friendly than alt-tab. Oh, and I had to snigger when I heard Steve Jobs talk about assigning it to a second mouse button - when are Apple going to release one of them, eh?

Apple, as they usually do, is throttling their marketing department into overdrive and claiming that the PowerMac G5 isn’t just the fastest Macintosh ever made, but the fastest desktop computer available.

Now, nobody really knows that for sure. And we won’t know the truth until some independent third parties get their mits on that towering hunk of steel mesh and run it around the track a few laps.

Exposé most certainly does give you something more than alt-tab, which is retricted to cycling through applications. It allows you to quickly cycle through all windows (or just those windows belonging to the frontmost application). Do you really not see the difference?

Besides, Mac OS X already does alt (or command) tab, with a very flexible and powerful means of hiding applications (as I explain above) via keyboard shortcut (or multi-button mouse).

As a Windows user, I think I must enlighten you all about the features of this OS and dim your awe about Exposé.

1. I can ALT+TAB with a Powertoy from MS and see a thumbnail of each window open. Priceless.

2. In XP I windows from the same application are grouped into one button. Each one of this groups can be collapsed (hidden), cascaded and tiled.

Not to mention the Show Desktop and Minimize All and Undo Minimize All wich returns to previous state.

Show Desktop only shows it but doesn't minimize apps, they have different behaviours.

And Win+E launching an Explorer Window and Win+F starting a Search and Win+L fast switching users is too conveninet.

What I find interesting, is the amount if misleading info in the G5 whitepaper. It compares SATA G5 to PATA P4 and shows how SATA is faster. Um.. it's not. Compare PATA in the P4 to SATA in the P4. SATA has 3 major benefits. 1) The cable is thinner and longer 2) It's hot-pluggable and 3) *MAX* bandwidth is 150 vs PATA133 which is... 133. Now the max part is the important thing here. Your average 7200rpm drive uses around 75-80 of the 100 in PATA100. It uses around 75-80 in PATA133, and again 75-80 in SATA150. While it's nice to have a 150mph speed limit, if your car only goes 75-80, changing the limit from 100 to 150 doesn't do a whole lot. In the future, though, it will start to matter. Once 10k rpm drives are out on the market in SATA150 then it really matters. Thats one reason I find it funny that apple compares SATA on the G5 (to be available in few months) to PATA on the P4. My 8-month old P4 (rev.A) has SATA-RAID native to the motherboard. *ALL* rev.C P4's have at least 2, often 4 SATA channels, in addition to the standard 4 PATA channels, which apple has ditched entirely. It's weird that they say they remove the bottleneck caused by hard drive transfer speeds... I thought they used 7200rpm drives? Thats the real bottle neck. Hard drives can't transfer fast enough.

They also compare firewire to USB 2.0. Thats great. It's good to know that the 8-month old PC I have that has 2 firewire ports is able to sustain higher transfer rates then the 8 usb 2.0 ports that I have. Not sure exactly what the point is, but it's still good to know. I guess.

It's good that they have such high FSB too, stops the bottlenecks with the ram. They have dual ddr400, which is pretty new to the PC world -only EVERY rev.c P4 and many rev.b, not to mention the nForce from amd- which matches the 800 FSB on the 1.6 It's a pity that the ram will bottleneck the 900 and 1000 FSB on the higher end models, but hey, eventually dual ddr433 will come out.

All in all they have a really nice machine. It's going to be a great computer. I just wish they wouldn't keep touting "new technology" and imply that it's exclusive to the mac, or a mac-first, when it's been available on the PC for (often) a year or more. Apple has built a machine that in their somewhat questionable benchmarks, has moderately beaten Dell's model using least years tech.